damelola | Question

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tv: house

Question

For those of you who will continue to watch House next season:

WHY?

This is not intended as an attack, I swear. You know I don't pick fights with my friends (random trolls and evil people on the other hand...). But how are you justifying it to yourselves? Is it just a case of 'I've started so I have to finish'? I mean, I know some of y'all would watch snuff for to Hugh Laurie if you had to, and I can't claim I'm any different when it comes to my women.

But I'm genuinely interested to hear what the defence is to the blatant misogyny (and/or casual racism), sharp decline in writing and all-round character assassination (including, most importantly, that of House himself)? What is it that makes you say that's not how it is or it doesn't matter because. Like I say, not picking a fight but I feel like I've only seen one side of this so far and I really don't know how the people not speaking up about this are rationalising the showrunners' decisions.

I'm putting this public and enabling anon so you don't have to feel awkward about it all. Look forward to hearing any and all sides of the arguments outside of the general comm hysteria.

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omg i forgot about that bone marrow scene. UGH YES. That was... what even WAS that? Foreman was depicted as being like some kind of crazed, mentally deranged psychopath in that scene - but if it had been Chase or Cameron, or even House, it would have been "character building" or they would have at least been given excuses for their behaviour because they were 'acting for the benefit of the patient'. Foreman, however, was just being an asshole doctor and everyone took a lot of pleasure in ripping his character to pieces for his ~atrocious action~

Which just makes the whole Chase fixed an African nation by killing the dictator even MORE insulting, when I think of it that way. Had Foreman killed Debala (the African leader), he would have come under SO much negative scrutiny and would have furthered the 'proof' that Foreman is a bad person. But Chase was given so many sympathetic exceptions for his actions because of his MANPAIN (and also because he's white and OBVIOUSLY white people are so much better and less evil than people of colour).

UGH. I am so glad I no longer bother with this show, ffs.

yeah, srsly! in the real world, no shit it would be unacceptable. in the show's world? all of them have done much worse things (especially house and wilson); but even the way the show set it up, and not just the characters' reactions, treated it as a worse action

at least if foreman had been involved, from what it sounds like, they wouldn't have the added racism on top of the western vs. global south dynamic. as it is, it's like the worst possible way to treat such a storyline (assuming such a storyline is even necessary, which it never really is)

ikr. i will always be enormously happy with the people i've met through it, but i'm really glad i no longer feel a real attachment to the actual show

I will forever be bewildered by people who think House (and Wilson) deserve any sympathy, for ANYTHING. Back when the show was new and the writers hadn't fucked things up yet, House was kind of a protagonist people sympathised with. At the very least, House often said things that people wished they had the social freedom to say, which is where a lot of the 'sympathy' aspect comes into it imo.

But as the show has progressed, House has become less and less protagonist and more and more not even antagonist but ASSHOLE. And people vehemently still defend his actions and his ~feelings~, as though he's deserving of having a shitload of slack cut for him just because he's a druggie who can't help his addiction and he's omg going through sooooo much angst, POOR WOOBIE.

After the amount of shit he put Cuddy through, I don't blame her for treating HIM like shit in return. He has done AWFUL things to her - he's demeaned her, demoralised her, devalued her, made insults at her expense, made constant sexist remarks at her expense, violated her privacy, violated her equal rights as a woman - and the moment she turns even a smidge of that back on him, SHE IS SUDDENLY SO OMG EVILLLLL. Because, of course, like people of colour, women are obviously evil, cockteasing sluts who deserve every ounce of misogynistic and chauvinistic attitudes that they experience when they don't appreciate male attention, even if the attention is dehumanising.

Bottom line is: House (and Wilson) deserve EVERY piece of shit they get flung in their direction because they bring it all completely on themselves. People who think they're deserving of having slack cut despite all the horrible, horrible things House and Wilson have done kind of says a lot about those very people.

dkkdljdfg just writing/thinking about all of this is making me angry and I've barely bothered with House or the fandom for ages. Yeah, I'm thankful for (most) of the people I've met through fandom but I sure as hell don't miss the constant ill-feeling I got from it nor do I miss the irky feelings I got from certain aspects of the show.

honestly, that's why I have never, ever been in favor of a present-day relationship between House and Cuddy - her characterization as a strong person could only suffer when she allowed him that much more power over her. UST is awesome, but between them? I have always vastly preferred the less sexualized, more guilt-driven dynamic that was present in the early seasons. And that's why I enjoyed Thirteen a lot, when I was still watching - yeah, there was some UST, because titular character and hot younger woman. But she took no shit back then.

House and Wilson were much, MUCH more interesting before the show itself moved from explaining their actions towards excusing them.

yeah, I totally agree. For one thing, I wouldn't have met you! Or damelola! But we've all grown a lot, I think, and part of that was away from what the show has moved towards excusing rather than showing, and part of it was watching the virulent and tiresome attitudes of the people around us. I miss the show I used to enjoy, but I will never miss having to excuse the feelings it evoked in me or the ways in which my opinions were curbed by the general standards of behavior in the fan-spaces.

that's why I have never, ever been in favor of a present-day relationship between House and Cuddy - her characterization as a strong person could only suffer when she allowed him that much more power over her.

Ha, yup. Hence why I chose to create my own House/Cuddy universes when I was into fic writing/roleplaying, lol. I could enjoy the dynamic AND control the characters/choices/actions! Way better than cringing at every turn on the show.

I would even go so far as saying that show not just excused their actions but also exploited them. The show has come to capitalise on inexcusable behaviour. I know it's "just a show" and fiction should never be taken seriously - except fiction is a huge commentary on society and socially "acceptable" opinions and behaviour, not to mention media in any of its forms hugely influences society. Inexcusable behaviour is still inexcusable behaviour, whether that's in the real world or the fictional world, and it irks me so much that the show now PRIDES itself on inexcusable behaviour.

You're very right about how much a lot of us have grown since we've met each other. If anything good has come out of House and the fandom for me, it's that it helped me identify privilege, -isms and the way in which apathy or indifference towards any form of injustice is taking the side of the oppressor. Well, it helped me with the foundations of understanding those things, which I've since built a lot of knowledge on (and a huge amount of that foundation was because of you and bammel, which I will always be extremely grateful for ♥). Some people might think it stupid that I've learned such lessons from a fictional show and through a fandom founded on fiction, but there's no wrong place to learn such important things really.

Yeah you're definitely right. Someone, I think in the house_cuddy reaction to LE's quitting, made the point that the show is actually incredibly conservative, despite the way we, and probably the majority of the audience, think of it. No ground-breaking views have ever been really aired, especially in a way that wasn't later undercut by the show's development, and the main attraction was, like you said, House voicing un-socially-acceptable things. The show has always been fundamentally conservative, in holding up the male-dominated medical landscape, and especially later, in undercutting characters who deviated from non-white-male social norms (even, later, House, imo, by going through the whole ~nice guy, quit vicodin, what leg probs~ storyline)

Fiction should always be taken extremely seriously, in my biased opinion, lololol. What is it but our extrapolation of our own societal norms? It's not just description, in the way nonfiction is, it's re-imagining and re-casting, and people (and ourselves) can choose to do that in ways that uphold or subvert mainstream opinions. House has moved towards upholding more than it did, tho.

Me too! A lot of my feminism had fine-tuning through thinking about the things that bothered me in the show, or the things that other fans said about the characters! (and now you will make me, and bammel probs later, blush until my cheeks burst)

Yeah, seriously, if we can't talk about these things at a remove, viewed through a fictional lens, when can we discuss them? It's way easier, imo, to talk about them in reference to a show than in reference to real life.

OHHH MAN, SO TRUE ABOUT ITS CONSERVATIVENESS. I was just thinking about that yesterday, actually. I was thinking about the shit hitting the fan with LE's departure, which led to thinking about the attitude of the show, and was like, "Wow, the show is really nothing but extreme conservatism disguised as progressive thinking BECAUSE of the socially unacceptable things House says and does." Except lol, there's nothing progressive about the things House says and does, and there's NOTHING progressive about the attitude of the show as a whole.

A lot of people fall for it, though - a LOT of people seriously think House is progressive thought and opinion and fail to identify the conservativeness throughout. They're like, "OMG IT'S SUCH A REVOLUTIONARY SHOW TO HAVE ON SUCH A CONSERVATIVE NETWORK". Um no, not really. The bullshit House sprouts isn't a great deal different to the bullshit that Glenn Beck sprouts. It's offensive and hateful and infringes on people's equal/human rights. There is NOTHING progressive about that.

It also irks me that the show promotes the idea that being offensive and socially unacceptable and expressing prejudice in the guise of "being confronting" is cool. It just confirms the horrible misconception that freedom of speech means people can say whatever the hell they want, fuck the consequences and fuck whoever gets offended. Fuck, it bugs me so much that people think this attitude is progressive thinking.

I meant, like, fiction shouldn't be taken seriously in that it's not reality and I try not to get too affected by things that happen in fiction. HOWEVER, THAT SAID - everything you said about viewing things through a stage lens (ie, fiction) is spot on and is exactly why I can't *not* take things in fiction seriously. These days, I end up spotting so many horrible, glaring facets of -isms in so many elements of media, fictional and nonfictional, that it makes my head want to explode. Like you said, fiction is an extrapolation of our societal norms, and it's an extrapolation of our social conditioning and social expectations. And so much of that is SO FUCKING HIDEOUS. (Hence, why I *try* not to take things seriously in fiction because I just want some escapism every now and again, but the glaringly hideous issues often end up ruining any chance of escapism for me.)

Omg I've missed you, btw. ♥

i want to frame your comment

i've missed you too, and i'm so sorry about so shitty about communication, i've been in such a weird place lately, but i wanna try harder

ilu <3

You two have made me so glad I made this entry, for srs. <3

ahahahha, you started it! i haven't thought critically in a while, not since the finale of COE, and it's so nice to talk about media again, especially with two people whose opinions i hugely respect

I'm really glad you've made this entry, too! It's also been ages since I've had a proper, meaty discussion about media, and it's been ages since I've had a proper, meaty discussion about House.

It's actually been awesome being able to have that discussion here, as it's helped me really get off my chest things that have been bugging me so much about the show but haven't had the opportunity to delve into it. (Or, you know, maybe not opportunity so much as courage, especially after how burnt I was from all the shit that went down - I know you know what I mean by that, lol.) So yeah, huge thank you for this post. ♥ ♥ ♥

No, I've been really out of touch, too. It's no one's fault - shit happens, life happens, bullshit happens that makes shit in life worse, that's no one's fault and friendship isn't constrained by how much people stay in contact. If it is constrained by that, then it's not a real friendship imo.

I love you, too, and care about you in huge amounts, whether we're in contact or not. I think about you quite a lot, and I think about all of the people on LJ whom are really important to me (dameola, you come under that category, too!) and no amount of lapses in communication will ever change that. ♥

You're going to make me cry! I love you so much, as much as someone I'm friends with offline, and I'm so, so fucking glad that that won't change.

♥ ♥ ♥

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