Question

[damelola]

For those of you who will continue to watch House next season:

WHY?

This is not intended as an attack, I swear.  You know I don't pick fights with my friends (random trolls and evil people on the other hand...).  But how are you justifying it to yourselves?  Is it just a case of 'I've started so I have to finish'?  I mean, I know some of y'all would watch snuff for to Hugh Laurie if you had to, and I can't claim I'm any different when it comes to my women.

But I'm genuinely interested to hear what the defence is to the blatant misogyny (and/or casual racism), sharp decline in writing and all-round character assassination (including, most importantly, that of House himself)?  What is it that makes you say that's not how it is or it doesn't matter because.  Like I say, not picking a fight but I feel like I've only seen one side of this so far and I really don't know how the people not speaking up about this are rationalising the showrunners' decisions.

I'm putting this public and enabling anon so you don't have to feel awkward about it all.  Look forward to hearing any and all sides of the arguments outside of the general comm hysteria.

Comments

[damelola.livejournal.com]

I think House of old was good at puncturing and deflating those views. House mocking clinic patients for naive views, or teaching 'lessons' through the POTW. Now it seems like an endless fugue of 'let's see how fucked up House can get and who cares about the other characters? Oh, except Taub who nobody likes! Let's make it the House and Taub show where they are fuck-ups who've surrendered all redeeming qualities).

I wasn't one of those (as you know) who thought that Cuddy could cure House with her magic vagina. I do think the character is capable of more than the state he finds himself in now, and finale spoilers really push him to the point of irredeemable. The glory of House that I used to watch was that he was an asshole in many ways, but he had something about him that was right or interesting. Now he's just an asshole. He's not even 'saving' his patients lately.

I think for smart and engaged viewers like us, that's fine and we can make the distinction. But if politics in the past century has taught us anything it's that most people can't make that distinction and just grab for the McNuggets (to quote our lovely Josh). House is cool because he does drugs and bangs hookers? Cool. Never mind that the show is actually about how miserable that makes him. Well, it used to be. Now it's more torture porn about just how fucked up he can get.

It's just... compare this to The Good Wife, or even shows I don't particularly like or watch like Criminal Minds -- they can show the worst elements of humanity without treating women the way this show has been on and off screen.

It's misogynistic to offer Lisa a paycut and not RSL. It just is. No one can argue she doesn't pull her weight and he does, so what else can it be based on? If it's because of attachment to feminist causes then that's still misogynistic. It might not be intentional even, but that doesn't excuse it. Maybe it's FOX overlords more to blame, but if this shit doesn't get called out, it carries on -- as that Roseanne article in NYmag showed just this week.

I don't know that letting either J-Mo or Lisa go is a purely creative decision, but in context it definitely looks worse. We won't ever know all the facts of it, but I don't recall any chatter of letting Jesse go instead of her, or saying 'ah let RSL piss off to Broadway then, he's out of contract anyway'.

I'm worried this sounds angrier than I mean it to, but I know you know I still like YOU. It's just the debate, man ;)

[flippet.livejournal.com]

I don't know that letting either J-Mo or Lisa go is a purely creative decision, but in context it definitely looks worse

Oh no, I don't think that letting Lisa go is a creative decision. I think it's a personal attack with politics behind it, and misogyny fueling the politics.

I think that JMo was more for creative/possible penny-pinching reasons than because she's a female and they hate her.

It's misogynistic to offer Lisa a paycut and not RSL. It just is. No one can argue she doesn't pull her weight and he does, so what else can it be based on?

I'm sure they base negotiations on tons of stuff that we'd never think of, big and small, important (or self-important) or not. It's like basing a professor's teaching pay based on their publications - but maybe they're a shit teacher. Meanwhile, the good teacher is too busy teaching to publish - so their paycheck suffers.

If it's because of attachment to feminist causes then that's still misogynistic

No, I agree. Absolutely. But in a slightly roundabout way, if that makes sense. It's the politics first (which happen to be misogynistic) rather than direct and personal misogyny. Although it might be worse on her because she's also a girl and outspoken about these views. If it had been one of the guys being *exactly* as outspoken, I'm not sure the consequences would have been quite as dire - though I'm sure 'notes' would still have been passed. You don't 'dis' your employer's medieval politics without a fight.

Never mind that the show is actually about how miserable that makes him. Well, it used to be. Now it's more torture porn about just how fucked up he can get.

Well, and like rosie said, YMMV on this one. So many of the comments I heard after Out of the Chute was how horrible it was to women. But what I think many of them really meant was, 'I don't like that this episode is a huge F U from House to Cuddy'. Because they put themselves in Cuddy's place. And if they were Cuddy, it would a) hurt, and b) be insulting. But hi - that's kind of the whole idea. House is a jerk who *would* do that. And I thought it was quite clear that he was still miserable - even more than he'd been before. He only *looked* like he was partying.


I think House of old was good at puncturing and deflating those views.

It used to be better at it, this is true.

I'd blame some of it on writers phoning it in. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they got network 'notes' as well, no matter how DS denies it. Nets always think they know better than creatives about what, exactly, should go into their shows, and what the audiences want. Sports Night laugh track, anyone? I'm sure it's deadly difficult to keep a vision and original integrity in your show, especially once it's successful enough that the nets think they should take all the credit, and dictate what comes next.

I think for smart and engaged viewers like us, that's fine and we can make the distinction. But if politics in the past century has taught us anything it's that most people can't make that distinction

I mentioned on this tack below, but - then we should program for the lowest/simplest common denominator? Johnny can't figure it out, so let's only make programming that lays everything out for him so he never has to think?

[spoggly.livejournal.com]

exactly - it's the difference between a sympathetic protagonist, which House originally was not supposed to really be, and a titular/p.o.v. character whose actions we may understand but not sympathize or agree with, and which the show does not endorse with the rest of its narrative

and House was definitely moving from one to the other, even before I stopped watching.